Thoughts on Religion 1
Posted by: Ryan on: June 4, 2008
First a poll:
Do you think I am;
– Christian
– Atheist
– Buddhist
– Agnostic Theist
– Pagan
– Pastafarian
– I don’t know (As in, you don’t think I know!)
– Something I didn’t list cos I am a TRICKSY BASTARD!
I’m writing a long post on religion, ritual and faith but you have until its posted to weigh in with your guess as to what I label myself as these days.
I’m a little curious about how people see me. 
AND, tell me what you identify as, if you are comfortable. 
12 Responses to "Thoughts on Religion 1"
Hey, welcome outfox!
It does annoy me that people think agnostics are fence sitters. Its nothing of the sort in fact!
I agree about atheists that substitute human reason for ‘god’.
Label? Why do you need a label. Just be what you want to be – but stay clear of anything slightly religious – you seem smarter than that. I’m a nothing.
Ah, Bruce, you and I are gonna get along just fine.
^.^
I don’t usually bother with labels, but other people generally do. I suspect some labels have been creeping into my life.
My next post is going to be an overarching philosophical discussion of the relevance of faith/religion/ritual, not just a label-fest.
I have no idea what you identify as. Me? Well, there’s no real term for what I do. I kinda do my own thing, influenced by various traditions. My spirituality focuses on the energy that permeates people, things, animals, etc. My sexuality, spirituality and politics are highly linked. I guess I’m largely influenced by various forms of Aboriginal spirituality, without doing the cultural appropriation thing as I’m only 1/4 Native. I don’t have specific times set aside to “practice” rituals, for example, as my spirituality permeates everything I do.
As for the whole label thing, ya know, there are extremes either way. I’ve heard this debate for years regarding sexual orientation, etc. Yes, it’s important not to limit ourselves according to labels imposed by others or by ourselves. However, we use words to communicate and all words designate something. I think that it’s a natural drive to want to find terms that come closest to designating or symbolising what we feel we are, or some of what we feel we are. So terms or symbols (or what many people pejoratively call “labels”) such as pagan, Jewish, bisexual, transsexual, female, plumber, professor, etc. can be useful for expressing something about oneself. Like anything else, they can be taken to an extreme and taken as prescriptive rather than descriptive. That’s when they become damaging. I use terms to describe myself all the time but reserve the right to change the ones I use, or to change the meaning.
Bruce: Your comment seems to imply that beling religious is unintelligent. I’m not religious but I resent this new trend of looking down on people who adhere to religion. Everyone adheres to some form of knowledge, whether it be scientific ideology, political ideology, religious belief, etc. That’s what humans do because humans have a drive to find a way to understand their world. If an individual here and there considers themselves “above” or “beyond” that, fine, but “labeling” people as unintelligent because they believe something different isn’t very productive and implies that said individuals don’t believe anything at all about the world, which I don’t think is possible.
Please let me know if I misinterpreted your comment.
Cheers;
Jacky
Cheers Jacky for the comment about Bruce’s comment.
Ryan – i don’t really know what label you lump yourself with, but i’ll guess agnostic theist maybe.
Bruce – Ryan can attest to this, i am a very intelligent person. I study astronomy and astrophysics and do very well at it, and i am Christian. Intelligence/unintelligence has nothing to do with religion. It does however have a LOT to do with how you approach religion. An unintelligent religious person who is, what i would consider, indoctrinated will try and convert people with no respect or the like, and will never question things they’re told. I am not like that, but your seemingly blanket statement really rubbed me the wrong way. Smart people can be religious, and i think in a lot of ways when a smart person is religious it means a heck of a lot more!
Excuse the bad grammar etc. – half drunk tired and meant to be writing an essay!
Yup Bruce,
I’m attesting! Kirsten and Jacky are both really smart. So are some of my other friends that have faith.
I think that religion in the terms of ‘dogma swallowed and never questioned’ is what I would say only idiots fall for, but even then, often they aren’t stupid, they are just poorly educated.
pagan last i heard, but things change. =)
i am…i don’t know. i like jacky’s comment, that sounded good. =P
i believe 1 thing most definitely, that truth is a matter of perception. so, what is truth for me is not the same for you, as we perceive the world differently. so, the meaning of life and all that jazz, it is what it is, and always will be. my perception of it will change and time goes on, i learn more and meet different people with different ideas. and that is my truth for how the universe is.
and that religion comment was kinda insensitive. i thought your readers would be smarter than that.
Heya Bella,
Some of my readers are die-hard anti-religious peeps by the looks of things!
And yeah, right on with the truth being a matter of perception. Very post modern.
You did mention an affinity for refined flours, so I’m gonna say “Pastafarian!” 
I wouldn’t call myself religious. Jesus rocked with all those teachings on love, but Christianity has warped his message. I read Buddhist materials, and have several thangkas in my home, but I think of Buddhism as a philosophy rather than a religion, and I don’t have a very defined practice. I’m into Native American animal medicine, but I see this as spirituality rather than religion. I have many Jewish friends, and think they really have the right idea with the whole Friday night Shabbat celebrations–all that feasting and singing! I took some religions courses in uni and found them fascinating. I guess I dabble in a few types of spirituality, but I wouldn’t label myself as a practitioner of a specific faith.
I find the term ‘religious’ off putting, and would never refer to myself as ‘religious’ cos it implies adherence to dogma in my mind. I much prefer spirituality.
Damn, this comment thread has been fascinating! Everyone has such opinions on the topic of religion/spirituality!
That distinction between religion and spirituality is understandable, given that, for many of us, most of our experience with “religion” has been with mainstream institutionalised religions. I make that same distinction in my daily life.
However, when I’m teaching anthropology, I always specify that, for anthropologists, religion includes any form of belief system that deals with the supernatural (gods, spirits, ancestors, animal souls, etc). So in my profession, all forms of spirituality are included in the term religion and “religion” therefore loses it’s “negative” connotation of a big, monolithic set of dogma.
While I would like to be able to simply refer to that, most people are NOT anthropologists so, to be understood, I have to use the same distinction that most people make. I guess the main distinction we are making is between seemingly unchanging dogmatic belief systems that are incorporated into some kind of institutionalised framework and more fluid ways of thinking that vary with location and life experience. For the first, I say “seemingly unchanging” because even the big 3 (Islam, Christianity and Judaism) have changed over time and have much internal variation when it comes to practice and interpretation. I found out just a couple of years ago, for example, that there were times in Europe, before and during medieval times, when homosexuality was considered OK by the Church! They went back and forth on this, depending on social trends and who was running the thing. So when today’s Church leadership makes claims about eternal, unchanging beliefs, they are full of ****.
In any case, the thing with organised religions is that they become so political. It’s not the belief systems themselves that I ever have a problem with, it’s the people who use belief systems for their political gain. We see this over and over again, from the crusades to right-wing Christian fundamentalism in the U.S. today.
So, yeah . . .all that being said, I use the lay distinction between religion and spirituality in my daily life to avoid confusion that comes from all the political interference with people’s belief systems. Fortunately, I know people who adhere to any one of the “big 3″ who interpret things in more fluid ways, not letting themselves be influenced by manipulative religious leaders and who are way more open then most people would assume them to be.
Finally, if anyone is interested in seeing how politics and religion have been linked since the early days of Judaism , I highly recommend Elaine Pagels. She’s a historian but she writes for a lay public (without all the pesky jargon): very clearly and eloquently. Gnostic Gospels is a must, as well as the Origin of Satan. I’m still working on Adam, Eve and the Serpent, which looks at changing attitudes toward sexuality.
OK, OK . . .I’ll shut up now!
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1 | outfox
June 4, 2008 at 10:57 pm
I’d pick tricksy. Because I am pre-emptive like that.
I am agnostic, which isn’t because I am a “fence sitter” as some typify agnosticism, but because I’m mostly a secular rationalist, but I think it important in that to admit the limits of human reason, rather than substitute human reason for “god” which can lead to secular ideological zeals.